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welcome to shattered reality with their

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

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have your paradigms shifted in the

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truths questioned and now shattered

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reality hi and thanks for listening to

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us once again here on chattered reality

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I am Kate Valentine and I am for Russia

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and it's a pleasure to be with you today

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we have a very exciting guest but before

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we introduce our guests

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I wanted to simply mention to everyone

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that this is a non-commercial podcast

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it's free and we are free of any of Big

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Brother's interruptions no one tells us

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what to say this is free clear

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independent podcasting now our guest

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today is captain Andy Danziger and

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before we welcome him I want to tell you

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a very brief story about something that

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happened to me at the playground with my

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daughter when she was young and it was

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in Tompkins Square Park all one of my

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neighbors was there with his children

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two children and I knew him by sight I

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didn't really know him but we were the

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only parents in the park I don't know

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why it was some form of a holiday and he

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was out there with his two kids and I

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was with my daughter and they were

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playing on the slides and I struck up a

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conversation with him and it so happened

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I didn't know this before but the

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gentleman was an air traffic controller

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and he was talking about his job a

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little bit and being someone who has

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seen anomalous things in the sky myself

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I decided to ask him

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anything that the pilots ever talk about

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a UFO or UAP or anything of that nature

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and he said well they all see them I

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think they all see them but then they

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never talk about them I said what he

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said yeah they all it's known that

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they're not allowed to talk about them

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it's just bad news they don't talk about

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them so today we have the exciting guest

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yes captain Andy Danziger who has been a

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pilot 428 years Wow yeah and that's an

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airline pilot that's right and he's

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flown around or President Obama and he's

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flown with American Airlines I believe

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and it's captain Andy Danziger welcome

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and thank you so much for coming on to

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shattered reality because I feel like oh

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you're very welcome we're hoping that

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you do shatter some reality so uh I

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would like to just carry on with what

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Ferruccio was saying there does seem to

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be an unspoken edict that any untoward

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events such as UFOs EU IPS are just

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simply brushed under the rug is that

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correct as it as much a career killer in

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aviation as it is in science I don't

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think it is so much any Wars it used to

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be but it's because the whole issue of

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UFOs seems to be so ridiculed by the

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government and the press

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I think pilots are just reluctant to

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talk about them yeah III think it was

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one of the most effective ways to keep

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the whole thing quiet just that whole

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ridicule factor was excellent that

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really worked yeah we just don't we just

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don't talk about them we talk about them

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to each other from time to time but

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talking about them publicly is pretty

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unusual

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we certainly to discuss it with our

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friends yeah yeah so you know in a

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moment we're going to ask you to

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talk about your sighting but what we

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were just speaking of would you say that

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I've read your article in The Daily News

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I've read all your articles in The Daily

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News I think but the one about the

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Germanwings situation I'm wondering if

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they go for further psychological

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testing on pilots and co-pilots wouldn't

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that even make it more taboo to talk

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about UFOs because wouldn't that be a

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reason for grounding someone if you they

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want it to be nasty about it well it's

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an interesting thought I've never really

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considered it I guess it probably

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depends what the psychologists think

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yeah I don't believe that it should be a

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taboo subject at all considering that

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almost everybody talks about them

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privately and quite a few pilots have

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actually seen them and quite a few

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people just walking on the street have

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seen them from you know over the years

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it's not a sign of being crazy well I

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would think yeah and if they were going

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to start doing psychological testing I

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don't even know that they would be going

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there I think they would be going in

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areas that the psychologists severly

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established different testing modalities

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for to check to see if somebody was

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maybe not playing with a full deck we do

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have one question from a listener that

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found out that you are coming on and

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this listeners name is will and he had a

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question for you as a pilot about the

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Germanwings flight and it's a it's kind

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of a not a technical question exactly

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after the the crash happened and after

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the cellphone video apparently was

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discovered on one of the passengers that

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most miss fortunately passed on and it

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they had some kind of tussle going on

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apparently

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where they said the captain who had been

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in perhaps in the restroom and tried to

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get back into the the cockpit was barred

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entry by the copilot who is said that he

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crashed the plane and is said that the

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pilot was using a hatchet to try to get

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back into the cockpit but will brings up

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the question isn't the catch it inside

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the cockpit that's correct so there was

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some misinformation out there there is

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no way there was a hatchet outside of

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the cockpit thank you he's hatchet yeah

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it's hid inside and mounted up against

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the back wall so I guess he was just

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using his fists trying to get in or

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trying to get through to this guy yeah

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sad situation yeah I guess but we would

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really glad that you were able to answer

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that question so succinctly that our

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listener well had and so now let's move

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on to your sighting whatever you can

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tell us about it we be more than happy

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to hear and perhaps ask a couple of

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questions

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sure well I was flying very early in my

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career I started flying commercially you

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know for the airlines in 1988 and this

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was in April 1989 so I was still a first

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officer and it was on a turboprop

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propeller plane with jet engines and we

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were flying from Kansas City to Waterloo

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Iowa and that route is North to

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Northeast and it was a late evening

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departure so was uh I probably took off

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from Kansas City is best I can remember

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you know a little bit after 8 o'clock at

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night maybe even a little later than

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that it could even been nine o'clock at

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night and we're flying up in beautiful

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visual conditions to Waterloo about an

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hour and 10 or alland 15-minute flight

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we reached our cruising altitude of

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15,000 feet and I just noticed it

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nothing unusual but there were a bunch

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of thin wispy kind of cloud

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why did our altitude which is like I

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said something perfectly normal the

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thing that was a little odd and

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attention-getting and remember when you

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fly you see a lot of things and most

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things are quite explainable I would say

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almost everything is quite explainable

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and given time you've seen virtually

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everything there is to see but there was

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a whitish disc a dim white disc visible

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at about hour oh maybe one thirty two

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o'clock position you know if you look at

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a clock and you hold it vertically deep

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that's how you figure out where things

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are when you describe them so this would

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be out on the right side the right front

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of the cockpit and it was a full round

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dim but very noticeable white disk

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behind the clouds and sometimes you

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actually see the moon dimly visible

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behind the clouds only thing was is the

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moon was right there on the left side at

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about nine o'clock and it was a crescent

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month wasn't even a full month so right

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away you know what we're watching this

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thing we're looking trying to explain

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what it could possibly be to ourselves

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and the first thing of course you would

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think is a reflection of the moon on the

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clouds

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well not possible because the moon was a

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crescent and the this disc was a whole

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disc so the moon was out of the question

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lookey again we're flying and again this

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isn't it's strange but it's not while

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it's unexplainable I couldn't at this

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point certainly say like oh this is some

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kind of a UFO I didn't know what it was

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it just was unusual right looking down

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from our cruise altitude we were like

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believers fifteen thousand feet was

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trying to see if maybe there was a

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searchlight coming from a mall or a car

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dealer you know they have those

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promotions and you know we see those all

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the time - or periodically and you can

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actually see the light on the ground

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shooting up through the sky and hitting

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a cloud and

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looked all over nothing just just

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darkness below us between Kansas City

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and Waterloo Iowa so we're still flying

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along and this just is this white disc

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is there and we're the two of us are

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talking about it trying to figure out

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what it might be and you know 35 40

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minutes passes would those wispy clouds

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are all still around us

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you haven't flown through any which at

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the moment never really struck home as

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being significant it turned out it was

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very significant

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yeah we're flying along watching this

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thing didn't say anything the passengers

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didn't think to at the time because we

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were kind of in close to what this was

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because it was pretty mysterious

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actually approached her then about maybe

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40 miles of Waterloo it was time to

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begin our descent we get a little bit

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busy I remember I was head down getting

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the weather from Waterloo and the

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captain was doing his thing and neither

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of us were looking at this for a little

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while and we got cleared by air traffic

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control to start our descent and I guess

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remember when I looked up it was just

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all he heard was just holy [\h__\h] there

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was this gigantic red all that was above

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the clouds it took up probably half of

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the wind the window oh my oh he was huge

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now huge not so bright it to like you

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know light up the cockpit but it was

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clearly illuminating itself you know it

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was just red and we're just staring out

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of like oh my god what on earth is this

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thing and we don't even know what to say

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we're dumbfounded dumbstruck don't say

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again don't say anything the passengers

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in the back because we don't even know

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what to say to each other we're just

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staring at this you know the initial

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response of course is there we going to

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hit it but it was exactly where that

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white disc was but it's above the clouds

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now so we're descending slowly and as we

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descend you know after maybe 30 seconds

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of this thing being completely above the

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clouds it starts descending slowly

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oh my god and yes yes and as it descends

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it starts becoming hidden by the cloud

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again so you know three quarters of it

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00:13:29,420 --> 00:13:26,850
is visible half of it is visible a

272
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,430
quarter of it is visible and then and

273
00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:31,680
this is a swear it's just like right out

274
00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:33,660
of Close Encounters

275
00:13:39,260 --> 00:13:36,390
and I'm sure Spielberg got some of the

276
00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:39,270
ideas based upon reading about UFO

277
00:13:44,329 --> 00:13:41,580
sightings he must have as the entire

278
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:44,339
thing finally disappeared behind the

279
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:48,450
cloud white lights hundreds of white

280
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:51,690
lights just blinking on and off all

281
00:13:58,070 --> 00:13:55,410
around us from the clouds and there were

282
00:14:00,410 --> 00:13:58,080
so many it was really illuminating the

283
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:00,420
cloud very clearly from inside as the

284
00:14:05,450 --> 00:14:02,370
lights are blinking and you can see the

285
00:14:08,450 --> 00:14:05,460
cloud start separating like a piece of

286
00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:08,460
silly putty and it as it's pulling apart

287
00:14:14,660 --> 00:14:11,310
it's getting thinner and thinner in the

288
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:14,670
middle and it keeps pulling apart this

289
00:14:21,380 --> 00:14:16,770
was taking place over of about a minute

290
00:14:22,850 --> 00:14:21,390
or so and thinner and thinner and all of

291
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:22,860
a sudden it gets you know to like a

292
00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:25,800
thread and it like snaps and the two

293
00:14:30,829 --> 00:14:28,350
clouds into into two pieces or the one

294
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:30,839
cloud into two pieces and the instant it

295
00:14:38,390 --> 00:14:35,370
snapped it was gone every single thing

296
00:14:40,220 --> 00:14:38,400
that we saw was gone the clouds were

297
00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:40,230
gone the blinking lights were gone the

298
00:14:46,220 --> 00:14:43,560
red thing was gone the white disk was

299
00:14:49,449 --> 00:14:46,230
gone it was not a cloud in the sky oh my

300
00:14:51,610 --> 00:14:49,459
god nothing oh it's the most

301
00:14:56,810 --> 00:14:51,620
unbelievable experience of my life

302
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:56,820
absolutely surreal oh yeah surreal so

303
00:15:02,060 --> 00:14:59,040
you know we looked at each other like oh

304
00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:02,070
my god you know do we say anything what

305
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:04,080
do we say what do we asked you know do

306
00:15:09,860 --> 00:15:06,930
we even want to and we finally decided

307
00:15:12,079 --> 00:15:09,870
the captain said to me well just ask air

308
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:12,089
traffic control he's got any traffic so

309
00:15:15,769 --> 00:15:14,130
I said okay so I you know keyed the

310
00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:15,779
microphone and I called the approach

311
00:15:20,030 --> 00:15:18,360
controller for Waterloo and I asked if

312
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:20,040
he had you I still with the center

313
00:15:24,770 --> 00:15:22,290
controller from Kansas City and I asked

314
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,780
him if he had any traffic out there and

315
00:15:28,070 --> 00:15:27,120
the guy says oh no no nothing at all and

316
00:15:32,610 --> 00:15:28,080
I

317
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:32,620
mean this very minute but like did you

318
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:34,930
have anything you know like five minutes

319
00:15:38,970 --> 00:15:36,670
ago was there anything at all on the

320
00:15:41,790 --> 00:15:38,980
strike no no it's just you it's a real

321
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:41,800
quiet night I say well even not just

322
00:15:45,270 --> 00:15:43,690
five minutes ago like maybe for the last

323
00:15:47,850 --> 00:15:45,280
40 minutes have you had any traffic

324
00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:47,860
editor 1 or 2 o'clock there's no air

325
00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:50,230
Midwest whatever flight number was your

326
00:15:55,490 --> 00:15:52,900
the only claim in the you know in my

327
00:15:58,560 --> 00:15:55,500
sector it's a very quiet night you

328
00:16:01,260 --> 00:15:58,570
you're all I've had since you took off

329
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:01,270
from Kansas City Wow that's it okay

330
00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:03,850
did you did any of the passengers see

331
00:16:11,730 --> 00:16:06,580
anything they never said anything if

332
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:11,740
they did it's a wait so now a half a

333
00:16:18,090 --> 00:16:15,010
minute or so passes the controller calls

334
00:16:20,130 --> 00:16:18,100
us back which is really odd and says air

335
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:20,140
Midwest and I'll just make up the flight

336
00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:21,490
number because I don't remember and like

337
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:23,470
you know 5570 those are the kind of

338
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:26,320
numbers we had back then do you want to

339
00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:30,610
report a UFO the two of us looked at

340
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:32,470
each other I mean I didn't even know air

341
00:16:36,990 --> 00:16:34,480
traffic controllers like come on the

342
00:16:40,170 --> 00:16:37,000
radio saying this kind of stuff and we

343
00:16:42,390 --> 00:16:40,180
looked at each other you know thinking

344
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:42,400
you know career day is really what we

345
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:44,130
want to do but I mean it was so

346
00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:46,930
incredible how do you just say nothing

347
00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:50,080
so you know the captain shook his head

348
00:16:56,970 --> 00:16:54,220
and I said yes sir he would this is okay

349
00:16:59,040 --> 00:16:56,980
if you're ready not sure on me okay take

350
00:16:59,550 --> 00:16:59,050
down this phone number advisor and ready

351
00:17:02,250 --> 00:16:59,560
to copy

352
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:02,260
so I got out of you know my pen and

353
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:04,690
piece of paper and I said okay and he

354
00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:06,640
just read me a phone number he says just

355
00:17:11,580 --> 00:17:08,860
give him a call and get on the ground so

356
00:17:14,730 --> 00:17:11,590
we landed in Waterloo you know 10 or 15

357
00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:14,740
minutes later and once we get rid of our

358
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:16,510
passengers who parked the plane for the

359
00:17:22,860 --> 00:17:20,170
night we came in we gave a call to the

360
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:22,870
number it was called the National we

361
00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:24,310
didn't know at the time was answered

362
00:17:29,550 --> 00:17:27,310
national UFO Reporting Center never

363
00:17:30,810 --> 00:17:29,560
heard of them and at least I hadn't

364
00:17:34,530 --> 00:17:30,820
heard of them at the time I've since

365
00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:34,540
heard of them yes but so he interviewed

366
00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:38,500
first the captain and then me and the

367
00:17:41,790 --> 00:17:40,660
guy made it real clear at the end of the

368
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:41,800
interview they

369
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:43,450
it would seem like real secretive

370
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:46,330
because it was you know you're never

371
00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:48,160
going to hear from us you're not going

372
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:49,480
you never going to hear from us again

373
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:52,320
you're not going to hear you know about

374
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:54,970
deciding or what it may or may not have

375
00:18:00,330 --> 00:17:58,240
been we just collect information okay

376
00:18:03,390 --> 00:18:00,340
and purportedly they're not government

377
00:18:05,010 --> 00:18:03,400
either that is correct that's correct

378
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:05,020
that's my understanding

379
00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:07,330
so I finally at the end of the whole

380
00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:09,190
interview he just took two yet a whole

381
00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:11,560
bunch of questions and mostly kind of

382
00:18:17,450 --> 00:18:13,240
things that I'm just relaying to you

383
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:17,460
here and I should you know are we crazy

384
00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:20,290
is anybody ever seen anything like this

385
00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:23,230
before no pilots and the guy says oh

386
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:26,200
you're not crazy at all this has been

387
00:18:40,130 --> 00:18:32,080
reported by pilots countless times which

388
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:43,500
was that Peter Davenport that of you

389
00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:43,930
worried

390
00:18:49,530 --> 00:18:46,420
it gave the report to it or do you not

391
00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:49,540
remember it which is absolutely no idea

392
00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:52,660
who I think he was running it at that

393
00:18:58,050 --> 00:18:55,180
point yeah or he did over for someone

394
00:19:01,260 --> 00:18:58,060
but still I mean for air traffic control

395
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:01,270
to be in touch with new Fork it was sort

396
00:19:08,130 --> 00:19:05,110
of a little unusual to I mean those air

397
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,140
traffic controllers as pilots are they

398
00:19:13,170 --> 00:19:10,000
may see a lot but they don't speak a lot

399
00:19:15,870 --> 00:19:13,180
and for them to as you said and it's an

400
00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:15,880
excellent point go on the air and give

401
00:19:21,030 --> 00:19:18,040
you that number because in that that's a

402
00:19:23,550 --> 00:19:21,040
public address one thinks that maybe

403
00:19:25,860 --> 00:19:23,560
somebody else reported it besides your

404
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:25,870
plane during the air traffic controller

405
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:28,210
and he was from the ground baby right

406
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:29,710
yeah might have called there or

407
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:31,810
something what's going on but I guess is

408
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:35,200
possible remember at least from the

409
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:37,360
airplane perspective he said we were the

410
00:19:41,970 --> 00:19:40,480
only airplane in the sky his sector so

411
00:19:44,370 --> 00:19:41,980
it wouldn't have been another airplane

412
00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:44,380
at least during the period of time that

413
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:47,080
we were up there but yes could have

414
00:19:50,340 --> 00:19:48,910
maybe been somebody on the ground and

415
00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:50,350
they're ready to try it a lot of

416
00:19:59,880 --> 00:19:56,350
attention no idea that is some sighting

417
00:20:03,600 --> 00:19:59,890
really its how large was that red ball I

418
00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:03,610
mean it you know let's say Boeing 737

419
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:06,460
was it that large or was it maybe like a

420
00:20:12,930 --> 00:20:09,480
little Cessna size or not how big was it

421
00:20:16,350 --> 00:20:12,940
it's very hard especially at night when

422
00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:16,360
you know yeah we appreciation yeah say

423
00:20:21,690 --> 00:20:19,150
how big it was I can tell you it wasn't

424
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:21,700
tiny right it wasn't like something that

425
00:20:27,450 --> 00:20:24,400
was the size of you know a half-dollar

426
00:20:30,090 --> 00:20:27,460
that was sitting you know two feet from

427
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:30,100
the window it was clearly something much

428
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:32,890
much larger and significantly further

429
00:20:38,670 --> 00:20:35,710
away than that but I would only really

430
00:20:41,820 --> 00:20:38,680
be making an estimated guess I would

431
00:20:45,420 --> 00:20:41,830
have to say the thing was as big as a

432
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:45,430
large or medium sized airplane you

433
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:46,750
didn't have any resemblance to an

434
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,790
airplane but partly as big as a large to

435
00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:51,280
medium sized airplane that you know a

436
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,140
distance of a mile or something like

437
00:20:58,740 --> 00:20:55,600
that it was very large in the window

438
00:21:02,130 --> 00:20:58,750
yeah no it could be fairly fairly large

439
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:02,140
and you know I've seen of course tons of

440
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:04,510
airplanes in the sky and you know for an

441
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:06,850
airplane to start becoming large in the

442
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:09,250
window it's got to be really close yeah

443
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:12,250
this thing either was ungodly close and

444
00:21:17,850 --> 00:21:15,130
as large as a you know small and medium

445
00:21:21,210 --> 00:21:17,860
sized airplane or it was further away

446
00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:21,220
and incredibly large I have no way of

447
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:23,920
knowing especially at night and she said

448
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:32,910
cedar rapids-- I mean Waterloo low

449
00:21:37,410 --> 00:21:34,570
clouds in Kansas City there were no

450
00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:37,420
clouds in the sky in between except with

451
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:38,920
this thing manufacture although we

452
00:21:42,810 --> 00:21:40,690
didn't know it at the time that's a good

453
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:42,820
clouds all around us and we never fly

454
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:46,000
through them that has been reported by

455
00:21:51,540 --> 00:21:48,910
other people you I mean I assume by this

456
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:51,550
time you have read a number of UFO

457
00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:54,690
reports etc that and it always seems so

458
00:21:58,890 --> 00:21:57,070
unbelievable I don't mean that I don't

459
00:22:02,400 --> 00:21:58,900
believe the people reporting but it's

460
00:22:04,530 --> 00:22:02,410
just as a concept it's hard to get your

461
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:04,540
mind around it that these things are

462
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:08,080
generating their own camouflage mm-hmm

463
00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:11,710
or maybe they were generating fact that

464
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:13,900
there's so much going on here it wasn't

465
00:22:20,130 --> 00:22:16,960
a simple you know I've read sightings

466
00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:20,140
like they people saw a red or well I

467
00:22:24,030 --> 00:22:22,270
guess this would be called a red orb but

468
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:24,040
what about the white disk what about the

469
00:22:28,170 --> 00:22:26,290
flashing white lights what about the the

470
00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:28,180
smokescreen that it put up that looked

471
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:30,280
like clouds there's so much more to this

472
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,730
right now if they were sucking in heat

473
00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:35,760
to keep that red light going and

474
00:22:43,020 --> 00:22:37,960
chilling the air around them that would

475
00:22:44,490 --> 00:22:43,030
create a cloud right yeah that would be

476
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:44,500
one way if you lower the temperature

477
00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:47,290
around you to the dew point then you get

478
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:50,380
clouds and then if it sucked it enough I

479
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:52,690
don't think you would get the thin wispy

480
00:22:57,390 --> 00:22:55,030
clouds that are all that were all around

481
00:22:59,790 --> 00:22:57,400
and she like just seems a little odd how

482
00:23:04,290 --> 00:22:59,800
could you kind of control you know even

483
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:04,300
if it was itself very cold then there

484
00:23:09,870 --> 00:23:06,880
would be a cloud around it but why would

485
00:23:12,030 --> 00:23:09,880
the clouds extend out you know hundreds

486
00:23:13,530 --> 00:23:12,040
of thousands of feet in several

487
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:13,540
different directions from this thing

488
00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:15,850
kind of in a semicircle around it right

489
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:19,630
it's just a little bit hard to really

490
00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:22,210
figure on what sort of technology could

491
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:24,520
have even made something like that no

492
00:23:28,410 --> 00:23:26,530
you said when you took off the sky was

493
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:28,420
clear that they had there were no

494
00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:30,610
reported ceilings or clouds or anything

495
00:23:36,270 --> 00:23:34,390
he said the view was very good it was it

496
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:36,280
was him it was clear visibility

497
00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:39,490
unrestricted both in Kansas City and in

498
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:41,830
Waterloo and you know there's limited

499
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:43,840
weather reporting stations in between

500
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:45,850
but the weather in between was forecast

501
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:46,690
great too

502
00:23:51,810 --> 00:23:48,970
there's nothing it was just kind of like

503
00:23:53,910 --> 00:23:51,820
when we leveled off at altitude all of a

504
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:53,920
sudden you know you're busy climbing up

505
00:23:57,390 --> 00:23:55,210
you know when you're climbing to

506
00:23:59,310 --> 00:23:57,400
altitude yeah because those little

507
00:24:01,890 --> 00:23:59,320
airplanes didn't have an autopilot and

508
00:24:06,090 --> 00:24:01,900
there's a 17 passenger metroliner

509
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:06,100
and you need a hand fly the airplane the

510
00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:09,310
entire time and so while you're climbing

511
00:24:13,950 --> 00:24:11,950
especially you're busier than you are

512
00:24:16,020 --> 00:24:13,960
and cruise even and cruise you have to

513
00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:16,030
pay attention really pay attention to

514
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:17,260
what you're doing because you're still

515
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:19,690
flying the airplane right

516
00:24:25,619 --> 00:24:22,960
little autopilot no autopilot but all I

517
00:24:28,889 --> 00:24:25,629
know is I didn't know notice the clouds

518
00:24:30,389 --> 00:24:28,899
those thin wispy clouds until after we

519
00:24:33,539 --> 00:24:30,399
got the cruise altitude

520
00:24:36,210 --> 00:24:33,549
I don't recall whether there were any at

521
00:24:39,509 --> 00:24:36,220
all during the climb out yeah when we

522
00:24:41,310 --> 00:24:39,519
leveled off at 15,000 feet and we sort

523
00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:41,320
of settled in for the cruise portion of

524
00:24:46,919 --> 00:24:43,990
the flight now it's time to relax you

525
00:24:49,710 --> 00:24:46,929
look at all those clouds nice you know

526
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:49,720
they're illuminated by the moon what

527
00:24:56,249 --> 00:24:52,210
little moon there was but you could see

528
00:24:57,570 --> 00:24:56,259
them and then you see this disc but you

529
00:25:03,330 --> 00:24:57,580
never wonder how that went

530
00:25:07,259 --> 00:25:05,039
why didn't we weren't thinking about it

531
00:25:09,539 --> 00:25:07,269
at the time but of course after the fact

532
00:25:12,389 --> 00:25:09,549
that's the weirdest thing of everything

533
00:25:15,210 --> 00:25:12,399
yeah it's part of the weirdness right

534
00:25:18,029 --> 00:25:15,220
well I think this thing was paralleling

535
00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:18,039
us at our speed and it just kept the

536
00:25:21,509 --> 00:25:19,870
clouds moving along with it I have no

537
00:25:22,769 --> 00:25:21,519
idea how it does any of this stuff I

538
00:25:25,769 --> 00:25:22,779
mean I don't I don't even know what this

539
00:25:26,970 --> 00:25:25,779
thing was enough missing or it wasn't so

540
00:25:29,369 --> 00:25:26,980
totally bizarre

541
00:25:32,369 --> 00:25:29,379
well and then after the clouds separated

542
00:25:34,409 --> 00:25:32,379
that blinking light that that was like

543
00:25:39,629 --> 00:25:34,419
an energy conversion of some sort I

544
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:39,639
don't know remember the lights were

545
00:25:44,399 --> 00:25:42,250
blinking before the clouds separated

546
00:25:48,889 --> 00:25:44,409
okay okay and then everything

547
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:48,899
disappeared just like gone in an instant

548
00:25:56,820 --> 00:25:53,500
many of our guests have their own idea

549
00:26:00,480 --> 00:25:56,830
about where UFOs come from what they

550
00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:00,490
could be if it's space travel if it's

551
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:02,110
travel from another dimension

552
00:26:10,049 --> 00:26:04,809
if it's time travelers from our future

553
00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:10,059
or or what do you have yourself a thesis

554
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:15,070
on this my guess has just always been

555
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:25,499
obviously with incredible technologies

556
00:26:32,780 --> 00:26:28,210
who knows what else is possible I don't

557
00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:32,790
know but there are trillions and

558
00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:37,830
millions of planets and you know more

559
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:40,230
than the grains of sand on the entire

560
00:26:48,650 --> 00:26:45,530
face of the earth and yeah so it's it's

561
00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:48,660
certainly it would be inconceivable to

562
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:50,220
think that there wouldn't be life out

563
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:52,650
there someplace we are at forms of life

564
00:26:58,430 --> 00:26:55,520
you know life that is basic is a

565
00:27:02,150 --> 00:26:58,440
bacteria and as advanced as things that

566
00:27:04,910 --> 00:27:02,160
we can't even imagine you know way above

567
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:04,920
our wildest imagination not just in

568
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:07,200
their technology but just in what their

569
00:27:10,730 --> 00:27:09,390
life form has become or is and

570
00:27:14,810 --> 00:27:10,740
everything in between

571
00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:14,820
so asserting that Einstein is right and

572
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:16,590
you can't travel faster than the speed

573
00:27:23,630 --> 00:27:20,690
of light maybe you're bending time-space

574
00:27:25,550 --> 00:27:23,640
around the spacecraft which is things

575
00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:25,560
that are being proposed currently even

576
00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:28,020
NASA's talking about that now as a way

577
00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:30,840
to travel very very fast you know make

578
00:27:37,310 --> 00:27:34,350
Mars in a couple of months if everything

579
00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:37,320
in a few days yes said of in 18 months

580
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:38,940
it's just unbelievable and the further

581
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:40,650
you go the faster you get and that's

582
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:43,410
just basics of what we're starting to

583
00:27:50,030 --> 00:27:46,760
understand and you know if space is bent

584
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:50,040
which again it's way over my head I'm

585
00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:52,290
not a physicist I'm just a pilot you

586
00:27:57,890 --> 00:27:55,140
know but if you know we always learn as

587
00:27:59,780 --> 00:27:57,900
kids that the straightest the shortest

588
00:28:01,610 --> 00:27:59,790
distance between two points is a

589
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:01,620
straight line right if you take a piece

590
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:04,710
of paper and you put a dot on one end of

591
00:28:08,780 --> 00:28:06,330
it and a dot on the other and you draw a

592
00:28:10,550 --> 00:28:08,790
straight line well that's the straight

593
00:28:13,010 --> 00:28:10,560
line way of going but if space is

594
00:28:17,180 --> 00:28:13,020
actually bent and you take that paper

595
00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:17,190
and you just bend it so that it looks

596
00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:19,140
like a hole and you take those two

597
00:28:23,540 --> 00:28:21,390
points that were on opposite sides of

598
00:28:26,150 --> 00:28:23,550
the paper and you bring them to you know

599
00:28:29,420 --> 00:28:26,160
a half an inch of each other because of

600
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:29,430
the way you folded the paper if space is

601
00:28:34,940 --> 00:28:32,340
really bent it maybe there's a way to

602
00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:34,950
navigate through space and go through

603
00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:38,430
those bends and places that seem far

604
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:40,590
away going in one direction or actually

605
00:28:45,409 --> 00:28:43,890
right around the corner going through

606
00:28:48,139 --> 00:28:45,419
the proper bends

607
00:28:50,719 --> 00:28:48,149
indeed yeah but we don't know how to

608
00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:50,729
find them or you know obviously go

609
00:28:56,089 --> 00:28:52,950
through them our technology hasn't quite

610
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,099
gone that far and hopefully not if black

611
00:29:03,289 --> 00:28:58,799
holes might not be some of these warp

612
00:29:07,129 --> 00:29:03,299
places but getting back to the you AP's

613
00:29:10,849 --> 00:29:07,139
the UFOs and other pilots you've spoken

614
00:29:13,940 --> 00:29:10,859
I'm sure over the years since 1989 to a

615
00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:13,950
number of other pilots have have you

616
00:29:20,919 --> 00:29:16,529
heard any stories that were similar to

617
00:29:27,199 --> 00:29:20,929
yours or anything that was a worthy of

618
00:29:32,709 --> 00:29:27,209
mention here I had spoken to pilots who

619
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:32,719
have seen UFOs that were not in flight

620
00:29:40,849 --> 00:29:36,450
I've seen pilots that have seen lights

621
00:29:44,299 --> 00:29:40,859
that were not spectacular but they saw

622
00:29:47,180 --> 00:29:44,309
things that they believed were UFOs

623
00:29:50,569 --> 00:29:47,190
flying across the Atlantic and are you

624
00:29:54,049 --> 00:29:50,579
typically up you know 33 to 40,000 feet

625
00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:54,059
and they look below them and they see

626
00:29:57,979 --> 00:29:55,769
lights that they think of very

627
00:30:00,649 --> 00:29:57,989
mysterious I didn't see him I don't know

628
00:30:03,979 --> 00:30:00,659
what they were you know like I said most

629
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:03,989
things that you see can be explained you

630
00:30:08,449 --> 00:30:06,690
said not only in flight not in flight

631
00:30:10,609 --> 00:30:08,459
not on the ground they did see you at

632
00:30:12,229 --> 00:30:10,619
some of the guys have seen stuff that

633
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:12,239
was on when they were on the ground I

634
00:30:17,209 --> 00:30:14,849
remember one guy a pilot I was with like

635
00:30:18,859 --> 00:30:17,219
I said we don't talk about it a lot but

636
00:30:21,949 --> 00:30:18,869
the people that it was close to we would

637
00:30:23,509 --> 00:30:21,959
bring it up and I remember one guy was

638
00:30:26,299 --> 00:30:23,519
on a houseboat

639
00:30:28,639 --> 00:30:26,309
down in the Amazon and he said this

640
00:30:34,369 --> 00:30:28,649
thing came right up above their their

641
00:30:36,499 --> 00:30:34,379
boat light up us and it just was clearly

642
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:36,509
a UFO you know I don't remember all the

643
00:30:42,499 --> 00:30:40,049
details anymore but he's quite adamant

644
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,509
about what he saw that she had a light

645
00:30:46,849 --> 00:30:44,399
that kind of came out of it and shining

646
00:30:48,979 --> 00:30:46,859
down on them the earth family was on a

647
00:30:51,259 --> 00:30:48,989
houseboat pretty incredible

648
00:30:54,829 --> 00:30:51,269
yes very much you know like famous early

649
00:30:58,069 --> 00:30:54,839
writings in Columbia in that Columbia

650
00:30:58,730 --> 00:30:58,079
I'm sorry in the Amazon in Brazil the

651
00:31:02,630 --> 00:30:58,740
island of

652
00:31:05,419 --> 00:31:02,640
Caloris had a huge UFO sighting there

653
00:31:07,910 --> 00:31:05,429
that people were actually injured by

654
00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:07,920
radiation that was about I'm gonna say

655
00:31:14,150 --> 00:31:11,670
5060 natives of the island of coladas

656
00:31:18,919 --> 00:31:14,160
who you know basically a fishing a

657
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:18,929
fishing Island and they were out doing

658
00:31:23,419 --> 00:31:20,940
some night fishing or doing getting

659
00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:23,429
ready to do some fishing and a UFO came

660
00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:25,260
over and as it turned out they were

661
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:28,260
irradiated and some of them died I

662
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:34,980
believe so that's danger business just

663
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:36,720
for a quick break you are listening to

664
00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:39,330
shattered reality with Lucia and Kate

665
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:41,520
Valentine and we're speaking to Andrew

666
00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:44,850
Danziger and who is a 28 year airline

667
00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:47,640
veteran he has experience of both turbo

668
00:31:53,950 --> 00:31:50,790
drops in Boeing aircraft he is an intern

669
00:31:59,000 --> 00:31:53,960
has been flying internationally on the

670
00:32:01,460 --> 00:31:59,010
757 767s as a captain for the last 14

671
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:01,470
years he served as an airline ground

672
00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:04,050
school instructor and Czech pilot in

673
00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:07,140
both simulators and aircraft it was one

674
00:32:12,890 --> 00:32:09,420
of the pilots to fly our present

675
00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:12,900
president during his 2008 presidential

676
00:32:19,549 --> 00:32:15,480
campaign those are excellent credentials

677
00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:19,559
and it just verifies that you're a

678
00:32:25,850 --> 00:32:22,140
person who should be taken seriously and

679
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,860
not some silly guy III feel sorry that

680
00:32:30,169 --> 00:32:28,080
you see things like this and many other

681
00:32:33,380 --> 00:32:30,179
people see things like this and they

682
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:33,390
can't be given frontline news in this

683
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:36,210
country unlike many other countries well

684
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:38,130
thank goodness the daily news gives you

685
00:32:42,919 --> 00:32:40,470
new life form yeah props on the news

686
00:32:47,060 --> 00:32:42,929
there was some there was a sighting and

687
00:32:49,450 --> 00:32:47,070
a photograph of a purported UFO in the

688
00:32:56,090 --> 00:32:49,460
Bronx about two or three weeks ago I

689
00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:56,100
read about it I yeah I did it was a

690
00:33:00,650 --> 00:32:58,260
little again as typical of many of these

691
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:00,660
photographs it was not terribly clear

692
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:03,690
and a little bit difficult to say what

693
00:33:10,270 --> 00:33:05,370
it was which doesn't mean it wasn't real

694
00:33:12,029 --> 00:33:10,280
it just means that you know that

695
00:33:14,460 --> 00:33:12,039
absolute picture

696
00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:14,470
everybody wants that everybody knows is

697
00:33:19,769 --> 00:33:16,600
100% real that they're pretty hard to

698
00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:19,779
come by and I would say that picture was

699
00:33:26,669 --> 00:33:22,840
a little bit vague and not a hundred

700
00:33:29,129 --> 00:33:26,679
percent convincing but not meaning that

701
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:29,139
it was not what the people may have

702
00:33:34,259 --> 00:33:31,450
claimed it was it just wasn't clear

703
00:33:36,090 --> 00:33:34,269
enough that I would able to say that you

704
00:33:38,460 --> 00:33:36,100
know a hundred percent this is something

705
00:33:38,879 --> 00:33:38,470
unbelievable you know I don't know what

706
00:33:40,769 --> 00:33:38,889
it was

707
00:33:42,899 --> 00:33:40,779
don't forget our pictures basically are

708
00:33:44,969 --> 00:33:42,909
based on photons and as you said these

709
00:33:47,099 --> 00:33:44,979
have energy fields and who knows what

710
00:33:49,019 --> 00:33:47,109
they're shooting out and that may be why

711
00:33:52,229 --> 00:33:49,029
you can't get clear pictures of these

712
00:33:53,789 --> 00:33:52,239
things but aside from that and I think

713
00:33:56,820 --> 00:33:53,799
you'll agree with me on this when people

714
00:33:59,369 --> 00:33:56,830
have sightings regardless of where or

715
00:34:02,190 --> 00:33:59,379
when or whatever there's an instant

716
00:34:03,690 --> 00:34:02,200
feeling that you know this is not from

717
00:34:07,529 --> 00:34:03,700
this earth I mean didn't you get that

718
00:34:08,789 --> 00:34:07,539
feeling when you saw this thing okay say

719
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:08,799
that one more time because you your

720
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:11,440
volume is very very low so I'm sorry I'm

721
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:11,770
sorry

722
00:34:19,530 --> 00:34:15,250
are you okay when you see these things

723
00:34:21,809 --> 00:34:19,540
when such as that red ball and other

724
00:34:25,109 --> 00:34:21,819
people who report sightings like this

725
00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:25,119
the feeling is instantly that this is

726
00:34:29,789 --> 00:34:27,369
something way out of the ordinary it's

727
00:34:31,799 --> 00:34:29,799
probably not from this planet and it's

728
00:34:34,319 --> 00:34:31,809
something you don't forget I'm sure

729
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:34,329
you've had other experiences in your

730
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:38,169
career that have been explainable but

731
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:40,089
pretty frightening or harrowing maybe

732
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:42,010
you've had some close misses but you

733
00:34:45,690 --> 00:34:43,990
tend to forget those things you shove

734
00:34:48,359 --> 00:34:45,700
them in the back of your mind but

735
00:34:51,169 --> 00:34:48,369
something like this like this huge red

736
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:51,179
ball that you cannot explain that then

737
00:34:56,579 --> 00:34:54,250
has cloud as a camouflage that cloud

738
00:34:58,920 --> 00:34:56,589
rips apart and then it disappears that

739
00:35:03,359 --> 00:34:58,930
stays with you forever and it leaves a

740
00:35:05,819 --> 00:35:03,369
strong feeling wouldn't you say yeah of

741
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:05,829
course and it was close it was so close

742
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:08,920
that's why you know it's not like it the

743
00:35:12,660 --> 00:35:10,510
light in the sky that you know it's just

744
00:35:15,299 --> 00:35:12,670
a little bit weird right now I mean you

745
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:15,309
even get used to seeing that the planets

746
00:35:20,010 --> 00:35:17,920
and the stars and if there was a star

747
00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:20,020
that was in the wrong spot you you

748
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:23,230
actually kind of recognized that but you

749
00:35:28,180 --> 00:35:24,800
know that can be a million

750
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:28,190
different things comets and just I

751
00:35:31,810 --> 00:35:29,930
hadn't noticed that it's a meeting while

752
00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:31,820
meteors go fast you know that just

753
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:35,990
shoots through the sky but yeah it's

754
00:35:41,170 --> 00:35:38,870
just stuck sticks with you I mean yeah

755
00:35:43,390 --> 00:35:41,180
I've seen that I've actually heard

756
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:43,400
people all chatting on the radio

757
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:47,570
crossing the Atlantic about reporting

758
00:35:50,890 --> 00:35:49,130
they're all talking there's an

759
00:35:52,270 --> 00:35:50,900
air-to-air frequency where the pilots

760
00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:52,280
can talk to each other that aren't

761
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,350
talking air-traffic control not it's not

762
00:35:57,870 --> 00:35:56,240
not regular air traffic control over the

763
00:36:00,040 --> 00:35:57,880
Atlantic so don't misunderstand

764
00:36:02,020 --> 00:36:00,050
complicated I won't even explain it here

765
00:36:03,550 --> 00:36:02,030
but there's a place where we can chat

766
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:03,560
with each other and there was a whole

767
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:07,090
lot of chatter about this one light

768
00:36:13,090 --> 00:36:10,760
about that was very low on the horizon

769
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:13,100
that was just flashing tons and tons of

770
00:36:18,430 --> 00:36:16,880
colors and they were all everybody was

771
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:18,440
wondering what it was well I could tell

772
00:36:22,780 --> 00:36:20,510
you what it was it was the light of a

773
00:36:26,050 --> 00:36:22,790
star that was very close to the horizon

774
00:36:29,980 --> 00:36:26,060
that was either setting or rising I

775
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:29,990
can't remember which and because it was

776
00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:33,200
going through so much of the horizon it

777
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:35,630
was called the distortion was causing a

778
00:36:40,930 --> 00:36:39,050
ton of colors and it really was it was

779
00:36:42,850 --> 00:36:40,940
really cool it was but it would stuck

780
00:36:44,770 --> 00:36:42,860
you know and there were a lot of people

781
00:36:47,530 --> 00:36:44,780
talking about that we're questioning

782
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:47,540
what the thing was you know I hadn't

783
00:36:52,330 --> 00:36:49,490
known about what it was you have

784
00:36:55,420 --> 00:36:52,340
commented on different things about

785
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:55,430
airline safety and things involving

786
00:37:01,720 --> 00:36:56,330
different era

787
00:37:04,270 --> 00:37:01,730
air air disasters and I was very I was

788
00:37:06,130 --> 00:37:04,280
very taken aback by your your

789
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:06,140
description of Turkish Airlines had I

790
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:08,330
heard it before I went to Istanbul I

791
00:37:15,690 --> 00:37:11,570
think I might have rethought my trip

792
00:37:20,020 --> 00:37:15,700
however just about one particular

793
00:37:23,140 --> 00:37:20,030
airline flight 380 the Malaysian

794
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:23,150
Airlines of flight that was was was that

795
00:37:28,860 --> 00:37:26,150
a good year ago two years ago not quite

796
00:37:31,810 --> 00:37:28,870
a year but it disappeared and it just

797
00:37:35,260 --> 00:37:31,820
disappeared and no wreckage was ever

798
00:37:37,730 --> 00:37:35,270
found and there seemed to be a lot of

799
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:37,740
confusion about what direction it

800
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:42,960
then I had spoken privately to some

801
00:37:49,310 --> 00:37:46,530
people that I know who fly and they

802
00:37:52,190 --> 00:37:49,320
found it hard to believe that nothing

803
00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:52,200
was ever found what's your opinion on

804
00:37:57,950 --> 00:37:54,180
that and you know we're not holding you

805
00:38:00,850 --> 00:37:57,960
to any anything here just you know as a

806
00:38:03,170 --> 00:38:00,860
person who is obviously very

807
00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:03,180
knowledgeable about air traffic safety

808
00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:06,180
and what might be going on what do you

809
00:38:09,859 --> 00:38:07,950
think why do you think that that plane

810
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:09,869
disappeared and why couldn't they find

811
00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:12,000
that the direction it had actually gone

812
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:15,720
in yeah I would say that anybody that

813
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:17,850
the people have told you what they told

814
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:22,290
you probably are not experienced

815
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:24,930
ocean-going pilots helping they fly

816
00:38:28,970 --> 00:38:26,880
either privately or just slide

817
00:38:31,730 --> 00:38:28,980
domestically that they don't sound

818
00:38:36,530 --> 00:38:31,740
terribly experienced because the oceans

819
00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:36,540
cover a large chunk of the earth and it

820
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:39,180
this wasn't like trying to find a needle

821
00:38:43,130 --> 00:38:41,190
in a haystack this you have to find the

822
00:38:44,810 --> 00:38:43,140
haystack first and they didn't even

823
00:38:46,190 --> 00:38:44,820
begin to know where to look when you

824
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,200
once you get out more than a couple

825
00:38:51,020 --> 00:38:48,720
hundred miles out from shore and then

826
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:51,030
this depends where you are on the earth

827
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,450
is some third world areas don't even

828
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:56,640
have such good radar like we have here

829
00:39:02,990 --> 00:38:58,650
on the Canadian Maritimes or off the

830
00:39:04,940 --> 00:39:03,000
coast of the UK but the max limit is

831
00:39:06,770 --> 00:39:04,950
about 200 miles and you're off radar

832
00:39:09,590 --> 00:39:06,780
there is just absolutely no radar there

833
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:09,600
and you're doing what's called position

834
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,260
reporting to say where you are and the

835
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:15,119
fact that the plane disappeared just

836
00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:19,290
doesn't mean that you know that dropped

837
00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:21,060
it dropped off radar there's just

838
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:22,680
nothing that's strange about it because

839
00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:24,090
when you're flying out over the ocean

840
00:39:29,330 --> 00:39:27,660
you're not in radar contact at all so if

841
00:39:32,540 --> 00:39:29,340
you're not in radar contact and

842
00:39:35,060 --> 00:39:32,550
something happens whether it's on

843
00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:35,070
purpose or accidental they're certainly

844
00:39:39,790 --> 00:39:37,140
not going to see one radar to see where

845
00:39:43,609 --> 00:39:39,800
you want so they tried using some

846
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:43,619
interesting science using the Doppler

847
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:45,690
effect and that the best way to explain

848
00:39:49,580 --> 00:39:47,130
that for those that don't understand

849
00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:49,590
that is one like a firetruck or police

850
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:50,550
cars coming

851
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:53,760
you and then it passes you how the sound

852
00:40:00,380 --> 00:39:57,210
changes in pitch yeah I did yeah

853
00:40:02,030 --> 00:40:00,390
well it's exactly the same it was what

854
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:02,040
they were trying to do with the science

855
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:05,280
the airplane had a little electronic

856
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:07,170
device on board that they were not

857
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:08,970
paying for therefore it wasn't

858
00:40:13,850 --> 00:40:11,370
transmitting any real information but it

859
00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:13,860
was making a basically we described it

860
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:16,950
as a ping it just sent out a little tiny

861
00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:21,450
signal frequently but you know it wasn't

862
00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:23,430
really being monitored because there was

863
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:25,800
no data in the ping just kind of a

864
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:30,450
handshake signal I'm here back to either

865
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:32,850
Boeing or so that somebody that meant

866
00:40:38,090 --> 00:40:36,450
that monitors that for the data but like

867
00:40:41,330 --> 00:40:38,100
I said there was no data in the signal

868
00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:41,340
so it's just normally ignored and they

869
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:46,380
use the frequency of the of the king to

870
00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:48,450
decide whether the plane was traveling

871
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:53,430
toward or away from the antenna I say so

872
00:40:57,530 --> 00:40:55,920
that was how they did that now I'm not

873
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:57,540
saying that's cloning science that's

874
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:00,480
very real science the question is is you

875
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:02,760
know did it does it actually work the

876
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:04,170
way they were doing it you know because

877
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:07,920
I had nothing of course I have no idea

878
00:41:12,170 --> 00:41:09,510
how this is actually done and how

879
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:12,180
accurate it was the way they did this

880
00:41:17,420 --> 00:41:14,460
but based upon this they tried to

881
00:41:20,180 --> 00:41:17,430
determine that the plane while it was

882
00:41:26,090 --> 00:41:20,190
not in radio contact and out of radar

883
00:41:27,530 --> 00:41:26,100
contact made a turn away from the

884
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:27,540
direction it was supposed to have been

885
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:29,730
going and started flying in a completely

886
00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:31,770
different direction right why did it go

887
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:32,670
in that direction

888
00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:35,490
don't have the foggiest idea was it

889
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:36,180
intentional

890
00:41:42,070 --> 00:41:38,730
was it another rogue pilot that locked

891
00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:42,080
the first officer or the captain out and

892
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,260
beaten to death and then turned away and

893
00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:48,480
just crashed the airplane you know flew

894
00:41:53,930 --> 00:41:49,830
until he flew out of gas I have

895
00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:53,940
absolutely no idea and you know finding

896
00:41:57,980 --> 00:41:56,220
that plane it's going to take you know

897
00:42:00,560 --> 00:41:57,990
what it could be found this afternoon it

898
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:00,570
may not be found for a thousand years it

899
00:42:04,070 --> 00:42:03,330
could be found by a diver or some divers

900
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:04,080
doing some

901
00:42:08,780 --> 00:42:07,050
see stuff you know in a thousand years

902
00:42:10,340 --> 00:42:08,790
from now anybody's guess because they

903
00:42:14,090 --> 00:42:10,350
don't really know where to look the

904
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:14,100
ocean is huge so you don't think and

905
00:42:18,620 --> 00:42:16,170
then this currents remember so the thing

906
00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:18,630
even if you think you know where to look

907
00:42:24,830 --> 00:42:23,070
every day it moves yes and then the

908
00:42:29,210 --> 00:42:24,840
debris on the surface

909
00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:29,220
assuming a crest on the ocean what

910
00:42:31,940 --> 00:42:30,420
debris that would have been on the

911
00:42:34,850 --> 00:42:31,950
surface would have sunk within a few

912
00:42:36,830 --> 00:42:34,860
days you know the lighter debris like

913
00:42:39,130 --> 00:42:36,840
the sheets and stuff like that but not

914
00:42:41,780 --> 00:42:39,140
the seats but the seat cushions some

915
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:41,790
life preservers that were just you know

916
00:42:46,460 --> 00:42:44,400
not attached to anything that would all

917
00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:46,470
you know eventually sink out and you

918
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:48,260
know who knows maybe one of these days

919
00:42:53,930 --> 00:42:51,960
some stuffs gonna wash ashore in some

920
00:42:57,350 --> 00:42:53,940
foreign country and you know identify it

921
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:57,360
is coming from Malaysia 370 uh-huh but

922
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:00,240
who knows it for when you don't believe

923
00:43:05,780 --> 00:43:03,090
that it's possible that somebody took it

924
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:05,790
somewhere else to be

925
00:43:11,210 --> 00:43:08,370
for another for another purpose you know

926
00:43:13,490 --> 00:43:11,220
that maybe one of these pilots or the

927
00:43:15,710 --> 00:43:13,500
fellows that were questionable that was

928
00:43:17,450 --> 00:43:15,720
sitting in the front row seats there you

929
00:43:21,220 --> 00:43:17,460
don't think anybody picked the plane up

930
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:21,230
and took it elsewhere I doubt it because

931
00:43:26,420 --> 00:43:24,090
it would be identified someplace it

932
00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:26,430
would have to fly over land and once it

933
00:43:31,370 --> 00:43:28,470
flies over land it's being picked up by

934
00:43:33,710 --> 00:43:31,380
some rays radar and even if you have

935
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:33,720
your transponder off that's the radio

936
00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:36,240
that talks to the radar you're still

937
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:38,220
going to show up and they're going to be

938
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:39,150
tracking it they're going to be

939
00:43:45,530 --> 00:43:42,410
wondering who this is what is this and

940
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:45,540
it's just so unlikely I mean I heard

941
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:48,090
stories I read a lot after it happened

942
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,370
all the planes sitting no doubt in Diego

943
00:43:54,740 --> 00:43:52,800
Garcia out in the Indian Ocean then

944
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:54,750
these people that said that they really

945
00:43:59,660 --> 00:43:56,310
have no clue what they're talking about

946
00:44:03,320 --> 00:43:59,670
I used to fly as a civilian pilot to

947
00:44:06,620 --> 00:44:03,330
Diego Garcia all the time oh really they

948
00:44:08,540 --> 00:44:06,630
yes they have it's not scheduled air

949
00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:08,550
service don't misunderstand but I did a

950
00:44:12,590 --> 00:44:10,680
lot of flying while I was at North

951
00:44:15,980 --> 00:44:12,600
American otherwise North American not

952
00:44:17,770 --> 00:44:15,990
American at North American for the US

953
00:44:21,550 --> 00:44:17,780
military Katsina under

954
00:44:23,890 --> 00:44:21,560
contracts and we flew to Diego Garcia

955
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:23,900
once every two weeks and we were not the

956
00:44:27,070 --> 00:44:24,530
only one

957
00:44:28,570 --> 00:44:27,080
tons of airlines were flying on a tons

958
00:44:31,090 --> 00:44:28,580
of exaggeration but they were probably

959
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:31,100
half a dozen airlines that do that kind

960
00:44:36,610 --> 00:44:33,530
of work that are flying to Diego Garcia

961
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:36,620
so they have actually airline service

962
00:44:42,910 --> 00:44:40,130
from commercial airlines that are

963
00:44:45,850 --> 00:44:42,920
landing there almost every day you are

964
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:45,860
not going to hide a triple 7 on this

965
00:44:50,980 --> 00:44:48,800
little tiny atoll of an island there's

966
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:50,990
just no place to put it I've been there

967
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:52,910
I've been there myself numerous times

968
00:44:58,750 --> 00:44:55,040
well it's good that you are able to

969
00:45:02,110 --> 00:44:58,760
dispel to some large extent the rumors

970
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:02,120
surrounding this missing aircraft and we

971
00:45:07,150 --> 00:45:04,730
thank you for that the other thing I was

972
00:45:09,730 --> 00:45:07,160
wondering when this large object that

973
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:09,740
was your on your sighting this large red

974
00:45:16,090 --> 00:45:13,150
ball a lot of people have reported

975
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:16,100
electromagnetic interference how are

976
00:45:21,540 --> 00:45:18,170
your controls at that time but did you

977
00:45:24,370 --> 00:45:21,550
feel that you were constantly and caught

978
00:45:27,010 --> 00:45:24,380
actually yeah were you speaking to air

979
00:45:34,060 --> 00:45:27,020
traffic control at the time or are you

980
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:34,070
sort of between there was that had to

981
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:36,400
have been at least a modicum of

982
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:39,710
communication between us and 83 during

983
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:42,400
this time but there was we didn't have

984
00:45:46,450 --> 00:45:44,690
much conversation but there was no

985
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:46,460
static on the radio that we know nothing

986
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:47,810
it was just normal

987
00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:50,480
the fuel gauges indicated normally

988
00:45:56,020 --> 00:45:53,750
everything indicated normal yeah okay it

989
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:56,030
just just said on some of the you know

990
00:46:01,120 --> 00:45:57,890
the Bermuda Triangle they report some

991
00:46:02,770 --> 00:46:01,130
electromagnetic effects and and then you

992
00:46:05,230 --> 00:46:02,780
know speaking of that Malaysian flight I

993
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:05,240
was wondering if perhaps they had been

994
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:05,990
moved

995
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:07,730
you know something had happened to their

996
00:46:13,870 --> 00:46:10,610
controls and they lost control of the

997
00:46:16,090 --> 00:46:13,880
plane but so really this thing was

998
00:46:17,770 --> 00:46:16,100
almost sort of harmless this huge red

999
00:46:20,740 --> 00:46:17,780
ball that was floating ahead of you it

1000
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:20,750
just did you get any feeling that it was

1001
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,010
watching you or - there's no question

1002
00:46:29,290 --> 00:46:27,680
really it was observing us really what

1003
00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:29,300
else would it be doing there I don't

1004
00:46:35,049 --> 00:46:31,430
know I mean it paced us

1005
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:35,059
for 200 some odd miles huh what else

1006
00:46:39,579 --> 00:46:37,490
would it have been doing interesting do

1007
00:46:42,190 --> 00:46:39,589
you think it was like a caught up in

1008
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:42,200
your as you were going through space you

1009
00:46:47,589 --> 00:46:44,690
know so like sucked you sucked it in

1010
00:46:51,309 --> 00:46:47,599
somehow I mean it was sorta like what

1011
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:51,319
behind you couldn't be caught in front

1012
00:46:58,720 --> 00:46:55,010
of you that was no I think it was just

1013
00:47:01,630 --> 00:46:58,730
it it for whatever reason was observing

1014
00:47:02,859 --> 00:47:01,640
us you know I can't tell you why but you

1015
00:47:05,230 --> 00:47:02,869
know it

1016
00:47:08,349 --> 00:47:05,240
I guess so us in flight decide you don't

1017
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:08,359
want to go have a look and started

1018
00:47:12,130 --> 00:47:09,710
looking I mean I don't know how else to

1019
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:12,140
describe it with the kind of technology

1020
00:47:19,329 --> 00:47:15,529
that you are describing it would seem

1021
00:47:22,809 --> 00:47:19,339
probable that it would have detectors of

1022
00:47:25,059 --> 00:47:22,819
some sort maybe even to check out the

1023
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:25,069
people on board you know as life-forms

1024
00:47:30,099 --> 00:47:28,010
or something I don't doubt it I don't

1025
00:47:31,390 --> 00:47:30,109
know what it could do you know the fact

1026
00:47:34,180 --> 00:47:31,400
that it did everything that I've

1027
00:47:37,029 --> 00:47:34,190
described is so incredible that I

1028
00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:37,039
wouldn't begin to venture a guess on

1029
00:47:40,750 --> 00:47:38,569
what else it might have been able to do

1030
00:47:42,220 --> 00:47:40,760
where it came from how far it had

1031
00:47:44,380 --> 00:47:42,230
traveled where it went when it

1032
00:47:47,230 --> 00:47:44,390
disappeared where it came from when it

1033
00:47:50,319 --> 00:47:47,240
first showed up no idea unknown you know

1034
00:47:51,609 --> 00:47:50,329
yeah unknown had it just been in space

1035
00:47:53,559 --> 00:47:51,619
that had been flying around in our

1036
00:47:57,180 --> 00:47:53,569
atmosphere just checking other things

1037
00:47:59,559 --> 00:47:57,190
out I don't know but it was incredible

1038
00:48:01,329 --> 00:47:59,569
did you get the feeling that there was

1039
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:01,339
an intelligence there that you were

1040
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:04,480
being watched more than just recorded I

1041
00:48:12,819 --> 00:48:07,609
can't say either way I didn't really

1042
00:48:15,609 --> 00:48:12,829
think about it I mean I wish I knew you

1043
00:48:19,059 --> 00:48:15,619
know it kind of seems like there was an

1044
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:19,069
intelligence there only in that it was

1045
00:48:25,059 --> 00:48:22,910
able to navigate to our position and not

1046
00:48:28,529 --> 00:48:25,069
hit us and not let us hit it and

1047
00:48:31,690 --> 00:48:28,539
maintain what appeared to be a constant

1048
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:31,700
distance from us so yeah it would seem

1049
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:33,680
like there was an intelligence there but

1050
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,079
I guess something that's that incredible

1051
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,000
in the first place yet could have all

1052
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:40,880
been done by a really fancy computer an

1053
00:48:44,970 --> 00:48:43,970
auto pilot who knows yeah but you know

1054
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:44,980
to me

1055
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:49,250
part of the beauty of exploration is

1056
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:52,640
that we get to do it you know that a

1057
00:48:57,790 --> 00:48:54,770
human being gets to go I mean we just we

1058
00:48:59,980 --> 00:48:57,800
got stuff driving around on Mars but the

1059
00:49:01,480 --> 00:48:59,990
ultimate goal is for a human being to go

1060
00:49:03,700 --> 00:49:01,490
to Mars because that's what we really

1061
00:49:06,670 --> 00:49:03,710
want to do and you know if other

1062
00:49:10,020 --> 00:49:06,680
life-forms have that same attitude that

1063
00:49:13,630 --> 00:49:10,030
we do yeah you explore for a while

1064
00:49:15,730 --> 00:49:13,640
automatically you know with some kind of

1065
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:15,740
an autonomous type spacecraft but

1066
00:49:20,020 --> 00:49:18,050
eventually the whole purpose is you want

1067
00:49:22,060 --> 00:49:20,030
to go and see it with your own two eyes

1068
00:49:28,210 --> 00:49:22,070
absolutely so are you have you

1069
00:49:31,090 --> 00:49:28,220
volunteered for Buzz Aldrin so we're

1070
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:31,100
sort of passing on that one too but you

1071
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:33,170
know I think you bring up such a you

1072
00:49:38,590 --> 00:49:35,330
know there's a huge controversy as to

1073
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:38,600
should you put a person on Mars or

1074
00:49:46,330 --> 00:49:41,090
should you just send these various

1075
00:49:48,820 --> 00:49:46,340
exploration type devices and you know I

1076
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:48,830
have to agree with you I mean yeah you

1077
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:50,810
can send all the robots and the drones

1078
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:54,650
that you want but but you know you got a

1079
00:49:58,840 --> 00:49:56,210
really see it with your own two eyes

1080
00:50:01,930 --> 00:49:58,850
of course you open it goal is to go

1081
00:50:03,850 --> 00:50:01,940
there absolutely you know if you think

1082
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:03,860
about it if we had people on Mars

1083
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:07,250
instead of drones on Mars we would know

1084
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:09,850
if there was some kind of past or

1085
00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:13,010
present life forms on Mars but you know

1086
00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:15,710
all these guys do the scientists come up

1087
00:50:22,750 --> 00:50:19,990
with tests and they send these tests

1088
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:22,760
testing laboratories up to Mars and they

1089
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:25,130
test things and you get back these very

1090
00:50:30,430 --> 00:50:27,440
strange results that are at the end

1091
00:50:32,350 --> 00:50:30,440
inconclusive yet a human being could

1092
00:50:33,940 --> 00:50:32,360
look at it under say a microscope to

1093
00:50:35,860 --> 00:50:33,950
look at this little thing wiggling

1094
00:50:37,330 --> 00:50:35,870
around here there's something that you

1095
00:50:39,010 --> 00:50:37,340
know I don't with the back carrier what

1096
00:50:40,570 --> 00:50:39,020
you would call it but or maybe they

1097
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:40,580
would find something even bigger I have

1098
00:50:45,850 --> 00:50:43,610
no idea but uh I'd like to be there well

1099
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:45,860
when the rover turns around they see an

1100
00:50:52,210 --> 00:50:49,280
eyeball looking into the rover but

1101
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:52,220
because really we are the UFOs of Mars

1102
00:50:58,300 --> 00:50:56,720
and and so the fact that people think

1103
00:50:58,670 --> 00:50:58,310
that they can't be UFO is here from

1104
00:51:01,660 --> 00:50:58,680
Ellis

1105
00:51:03,950 --> 00:51:01,670
where I think is sort of a little bit

1106
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:03,960
not not 100% correct

1107
00:51:10,130 --> 00:51:06,410
I have court have you thought about

1108
00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:10,140
writing a book with your sighting and

1109
00:51:14,750 --> 00:51:11,940
the perhaps the sightings of other

1110
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:14,760
pilots that you have the opportunity to

1111
00:51:19,970 --> 00:51:17,310
meet yeah it would be great because my

1112
00:51:22,850 --> 00:51:19,980
daughter actually wants me to do that

1113
00:51:24,770 --> 00:51:22,860
and just recently since I started

1114
00:51:27,110 --> 00:51:24,780
writing for The Daily News she has

1115
00:51:28,820 --> 00:51:27,120
brought up she wants me to do this so

1116
00:51:32,780 --> 00:51:28,830
whether or not that ever comes to

1117
00:51:35,930 --> 00:51:32,790
fruition or not I'm not certain but you

1118
00:51:39,620 --> 00:51:35,940
know it's a good kind of book to write

1119
00:51:42,980 --> 00:51:39,630
and II may I call you Andy okay it's a

1120
00:51:45,590 --> 00:51:42,990
good kind of a book to write because it

1121
00:51:47,300 --> 00:51:45,600
could be done over the course of time

1122
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:47,310
just collecting these things and you

1123
00:51:51,770 --> 00:51:49,290
only have to write one account at a time

1124
00:51:54,530 --> 00:51:51,780
and then you can have somebody a friend

1125
00:51:56,030 --> 00:51:54,540
and editor somebody just just jam the

1126
00:51:57,980 --> 00:51:56,040
thing together you know when you've got

1127
00:52:00,350 --> 00:51:57,990
a bunch of different things written down

1128
00:52:02,270 --> 00:52:00,360
it seems like that's a good point that's

1129
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:02,280
that's the way to do that I guess it's

1130
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:03,450
not like writing the Great American

1131
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:05,280
Novel you know well you have to come up

1132
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:07,290
with a plot or anything you just collect

1133
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:10,290
these stories and and and write them in

1134
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:12,690
an expository fashion in bingo you've

1135
00:52:17,690 --> 00:52:16,110
got a wonderful book yeah that's very

1136
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:17,700
interesting never even thought of it

1137
00:52:22,070 --> 00:52:19,920
that way that's the way to do that and

1138
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:22,080
my friend that saw the light over his

1139
00:52:25,970 --> 00:52:24,450
houseboat he would be the first person I

1140
00:52:28,010 --> 00:52:25,980
would call there girl was done putting

1141
00:52:30,260 --> 00:52:28,020
my stuff down in detail on paper and

1142
00:52:32,810 --> 00:52:30,270
then I would go from there yes I think

1143
00:52:35,630 --> 00:52:32,820
you'd find a number of people who would

1144
00:52:38,030 --> 00:52:35,640
be yeah everybody wants to tell somebody

1145
00:52:40,460 --> 00:52:38,040
about these things that they've seen and

1146
00:52:42,140 --> 00:52:40,470
there's no place really other as you

1147
00:52:44,330 --> 00:52:42,150
said before you know close friends

1148
00:52:46,670 --> 00:52:44,340
people you work with and even they tend

1149
00:52:48,740 --> 00:52:46,680
to sort of giggle behind your back but

1150
00:52:51,410 --> 00:52:48,750
yeah something like a book like that and

1151
00:52:54,620 --> 00:52:51,420
you might even have an emerging quality

1152
00:52:57,230 --> 00:52:54,630
like out of all that data it would it

1153
00:53:00,110 --> 00:52:57,240
would start to you know something maybe

1154
00:53:01,850 --> 00:53:00,120
some real facts some real solid theories

1155
00:53:04,130 --> 00:53:01,860
would start to emerge I I would

1156
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:04,140
encourage you to do it I think you're I

1157
00:53:10,010 --> 00:53:07,410
think you're an excellent witness yes

1158
00:53:12,050 --> 00:53:10,020
a trained witness yeah yeah with a lot

1159
00:53:14,030 --> 00:53:12,060
of credibility

1160
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:14,040
and I'm sure the you know uh since birds

1161
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:16,530
of a feather do tend to fly together I'm

1162
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:18,240
sure most of your friends are equally

1163
00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:21,240
credible and probably oh yeah I think

1164
00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:23,550
they're all credible I haven't met too

1165
00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:25,800
many people that you know I don't

1166
00:53:29,570 --> 00:53:28,110
believe when they tell me things well

1167
00:53:34,270 --> 00:53:29,580
but like I say I've heard a lot of

1168
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,280
things that could be anything and that's

1169
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:36,720
you just you don't know and you think

1170
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:38,910
that could does the mysterious lights

1171
00:53:42,110 --> 00:53:40,530
well yeah you're right they were

1172
00:53:45,620 --> 00:53:42,120
mysterious lights I agree a hundred

1173
00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:45,630
percent don't know what they were don't

1174
00:53:52,190 --> 00:53:49,140
know what they weren't yeah but they

1175
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:52,200
weren't so in-your-face as to be able to

1176
00:53:57,380 --> 00:53:54,450
say oh my god this is the most amazing

1177
00:54:00,550 --> 00:53:57,390
thing that's ever happened to me you've

1178
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:00,560
heard about the O'Hare Airport sighting

1179
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:03,930
yes isn't that interesting yes it really

1180
00:54:10,090 --> 00:54:07,530
it really is it's it's an amazing it's

1181
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:10,100
amazing story and and apparently people

1182
00:54:15,350 --> 00:54:13,530
were suggested that they don't talk

1183
00:54:18,290 --> 00:54:15,360
about it I'm not saying all right and or

1184
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:18,300
anything but they was suggested that the

1185
00:54:24,500 --> 00:54:21,930
witnesses clam up where do you come down

1186
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:24,510
on that do you have any opinions on that

1187
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:27,480
or anything well from the days before

1188
00:54:34,490 --> 00:54:31,890
UAVs so we know it wasn't one of them so

1189
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:34,500
who knows what that was but obviously it

1190
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:37,440
was something that defied any kind of

1191
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:39,930
explanation for the times when it

1192
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:41,760
happened and punched a hole in the

1193
00:54:48,260 --> 00:54:45,540
clouds so the clouds were also oh yeah

1194
00:54:51,470 --> 00:54:48,270
so I do believe the dark solidedge

1195
00:54:53,090 --> 00:54:51,480
totally bizarre really incredible I wish

1196
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:53,100
all those people would really come

1197
00:54:56,780 --> 00:54:54,570
together and they need to write their

1198
00:54:58,820 --> 00:54:56,790
story so you put it out there you could

1199
00:55:08,240 --> 00:54:58,830
start there you are there you go Andy

1200
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:08,250
you can write the story and they can

1201
00:55:12,170 --> 00:55:10,110
call me and I'll tell them my part of it

1202
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:12,180
you know it's like yeah the stories need

1203
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:13,890
to get out it's been really wonderful

1204
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:17,250
speaking with you and you know being

1205
00:55:22,310 --> 00:55:19,890
that we're local here in the new New

1206
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:22,320
York New Jersey area and you are also

1207
00:55:25,250 --> 00:55:24,330
local we're going to hope that we're

1208
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:25,260
able to have you

1209
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:27,810
back on again at some time maybe in the

1210
00:55:38,270 --> 00:55:32,640
capacity of a a technical aviation

1211
00:55:41,090 --> 00:55:38,280
advisor Wow we'd love to be why doing ok

1212
00:55:43,070 --> 00:55:41,100
oh it's been great talking to you thank

1213
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:43,080
you so much for sharing this well thank

1214
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:46,770
you so much really a pleasure and you

1215
00:55:51,790 --> 00:55:49,500
take care now okay okay bye now

1216
00:55:55,060 --> 00:55:51,800
thank you again thank you I but I know

1217
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:55,070
well sounds a great guess he was just

1218
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,410
boundless terrific and we're going to

1219
00:56:05,180 --> 00:56:00,960
have someone else on here today or I'm

1220
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:05,190
doing an opinion piece for us about the

1221
00:56:10,910 --> 00:56:07,890
Roswell slides we haven't really come

1222
00:56:13,220 --> 00:56:10,920
down on that in any in any real way and

1223
00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:13,230
you know it's kind of politically

1224
00:56:19,730 --> 00:56:16,710
charged event and so we have a our

1225
00:56:23,390 --> 00:56:19,740
friend who is also a technical adviser

1226
00:56:26,690 --> 00:56:23,400
of ours mr. David B Edney who's going to

1227
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:26,700
be on with us in a few minutes there was

1228
00:56:30,830 --> 00:56:29,130
one other thing I wanted to discuss with

1229
00:56:35,090 --> 00:56:30,840
you Kade I don't know if you've read a

1230
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:35,100
blog piece that I found out there on

1231
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:39,090
another site the UFO partisan blog was

1232
00:56:45,890 --> 00:56:41,090
writing about a very interesting

1233
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:45,900
correlation between Roswell and the

1234
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:50,490
development of using titanium in our

1235
00:56:57,890 --> 00:56:54,480
craft our you know like random strong

1236
00:57:02,090 --> 00:56:57,900
right and that prior to Roswell the

1237
00:57:06,110 --> 00:57:02,100
production of titanium was very very low

1238
00:57:08,990 --> 00:57:06,120
and after Roswell it it jumped like a

1239
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:09,000
thousand times over and it was after

1240
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:12,720
Roswell that titanium began being used

1241
00:57:18,590 --> 00:57:15,570
in craft that would manufactured on

1242
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:18,600
earth and that this person posits and

1243
00:57:22,310 --> 00:57:20,610
it's you know it's just a theory but

1244
00:57:24,290 --> 00:57:22,320
it's an interesting it's interesting

1245
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:24,300
enough to have caught my eye and have me

1246
00:57:31,550 --> 00:57:26,970
repeating it this is the UFO partisan

1247
00:57:34,810 --> 00:57:31,560
blog that it that they found titanium in

1248
00:57:38,090 --> 00:57:34,820
the manufacture of these very very light

1249
00:57:39,290 --> 00:57:38,100
craft that was apparently found at

1250
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:39,300
Roswell just

1251
00:57:45,470 --> 00:57:42,510
to throw that out there to you not to

1252
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:45,480
mention the what is that the transistors

1253
00:57:50,990 --> 00:57:48,210
and other things and cables and

1254
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:51,000
touchscreens and everything else that

1255
00:57:56,900 --> 00:57:54,000
they also feel that we're back

1256
00:58:00,080 --> 00:57:56,910
engineered at Roswell what was such a

1257
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:00,090
that man's name he's he worked for Gen I

1258
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:01,650
didn't know terrible I'm having a moment

1259
00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:04,170
here he wrote the book and then he was

1260
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:06,510
so discredited well I think Eyre there

1261
00:58:13,970 --> 00:58:08,610
was a problem there because the person

1262
00:58:17,450 --> 00:58:13,980
who wrote the book with him was bill

1263
00:58:20,090 --> 00:58:17,460
birnes and bill burns apparently pushed

1264
00:58:22,670 --> 00:58:20,100
him to finish the book up prematurely or

1265
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:22,680
brush the alleys too for so he was quite

1266
00:58:26,930 --> 00:58:24,570
ill I think rush the galleys to

1267
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:26,940
production and the gentleman did not get

1268
00:58:38,660 --> 00:58:29,610
to lie created his own world that's the

1269
00:58:41,870 --> 00:58:38,670
word that I get in any it was all about

1270
00:58:44,090 --> 00:58:41,880
back engineering from the crash and he

1271
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:44,100
had been affiliated with the general in

1272
00:58:48,380 --> 00:58:46,380
the army and supposedly the back

1273
00:58:52,970 --> 00:58:48,390
engineering contracts were given out to

1274
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:52,980
various companies it's very a very it's

1275
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:54,960
a theory so theory it's an interesting

1276
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:56,970
theory but there are what I will say for

1277
00:59:01,880 --> 00:58:59,520
the theory proven it what I will say for

1278
00:59:05,780 --> 00:59:01,890
the theory is simply that there are a

1279
00:59:08,210 --> 00:59:05,790
lot of ends like a lot of loose ends

1280
00:59:10,070 --> 00:59:08,220
there that haven't been proven to my

1281
00:59:11,780 --> 00:59:10,080
mind one way or the other though people

1282
00:59:14,420 --> 00:59:11,790
will characterize this gentleman as

1283
00:59:16,610 --> 00:59:14,430
having lied about it for some reason

1284
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:16,620
yeah I just that that's the part I don't

1285
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:18,720
I mean they may or may not have been

1286
00:59:23,990 --> 00:59:21,570
back engineered but I really find it

1287
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:24,000
difficult to believe that he lied on no

1288
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:25,920
I I don't know maybe I'm wrong too maybe

1289
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:28,050
I have too much faith in humanity but I

1290
00:59:33,830 --> 00:59:30,930
I do feel that he was pretty honorable

1291
00:59:36,410 --> 00:59:33,840
so hang in there a moment okay and we're

1292
00:59:38,300 --> 00:59:36,420
gonna get mr. David B ed neon Allah well

1293
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:38,310
could you in the meantime could you just

1294
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:40,890
tell us what the alien slides are that

1295
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:42,330
we're referring to um

1296
00:59:52,130 --> 00:59:47,040
well as as as well I remember it there

1297
00:59:52,970 --> 00:59:52,140
were two slides that were found near

1298
00:59:55,340 --> 00:59:52,980
Rose

1299
00:59:56,930 --> 00:59:55,350
well in someone at least in the

1300
00:59:59,480 --> 00:59:56,940
southwest might have been you know a

1301
01:00:03,520 --> 00:59:59,490
couple hundred miles from Roswell in the

1302
01:00:06,980 --> 01:00:03,530
southwest in an estate in a trunk and

1303
01:00:10,070 --> 01:00:06,990
somehow that the quote-unquote Roswell

1304
01:00:12,650 --> 01:00:10,080
dream team got their hands on it but it

1305
01:00:14,690 --> 01:00:12,660
wasn't really their provenance and they

1306
01:00:17,180 --> 01:00:14,700
were going to present these slides to

1307
01:00:21,710 --> 01:00:17,190
the world at some juncture and then a

1308
01:00:25,970 --> 01:00:21,720
Mexican man named Jaime Masson who is

1309
01:00:28,370 --> 01:00:25,980
known in the UFO world kind of decided

1310
01:00:32,090 --> 01:00:28,380
to sort of grandstand the situation and

1311
01:00:35,570 --> 01:00:32,100
charge people money in Mexico City to

1312
01:00:39,530 --> 01:00:35,580
see the slides and also to if you wanted

1313
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:39,540
like a satellite feed like you could see

1314
01:00:46,130 --> 01:00:42,930
the thing on television cable and that

1315
01:00:47,420 --> 01:00:46,140
was more money and so that's what it's

1316
01:00:50,330 --> 01:00:47,430
all about

1317
01:00:53,140 --> 01:00:50,340
okay and it was sort of like on based on

1318
01:00:59,740 --> 01:00:53,150
the old alien autopsy type thing every

1319
01:01:03,230 --> 01:00:59,750
slide yes well which it was used

1320
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:03,240
apparently there were pictures of a

1321
01:01:09,140 --> 01:01:06,240
being that was proclaimed to be not a

1322
01:01:11,390 --> 01:01:09,150
human being I see and they they have

1323
01:01:15,890 --> 01:01:11,400
since been revealed

1324
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:15,900
since the Mexico debacle occurred okay

1325
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:23,420
hello Kate Valentine here along with

1326
01:01:28,849 --> 01:01:25,920
Ferruccio and you are on shattered

1327
01:01:31,940 --> 01:01:28,859
reality hey hey guys create talk to you

1328
01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:31,950
again good afternoon and Kate you're a

1329
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:34,470
little low am I really okay yeah I can

1330
01:01:39,740 --> 01:01:36,450
barely hear you okay does that sound

1331
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:39,750
better no no okay well I'll let

1332
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:42,810
Ferruccio talk to you and then build off

1333
01:01:49,550 --> 01:01:47,760
the feed on this side so David we're

1334
01:01:53,859 --> 01:01:49,560
having you on today to do a little

1335
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:53,869
opinion piece about the slides that were

1336
01:02:01,760 --> 01:01:57,450
pro mode by the so called Roswell dream

1337
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:01,770
team and you turned into a media circus

1338
01:02:14,450 --> 01:02:12,690
by Jaime masa this is this is a real I

1339
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:14,460
think it's a really basic kind of a

1340
01:02:19,370 --> 01:02:17,130
situation there's been all of this

1341
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:19,380
debate in all of this discussion and all

1342
01:02:27,020 --> 01:02:23,930
of this finger-pointing about the

1343
01:02:30,140 --> 01:02:27,030
supposedly slides the idea that these

1344
01:02:32,660 --> 01:02:30,150
things showed some sort of an alien

1345
01:02:36,830 --> 01:02:32,670
being that somehow the quote-unquote

1346
01:02:38,900 --> 01:02:36,840
researchers were behind this scam and I

1347
01:02:42,830 --> 01:02:38,910
firmly firmly in the belief that it was

1348
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:42,840
a complete financial scam I'll just that

1349
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:44,010
just a moment

1350
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:46,290
they basically promoted a whole series

1351
01:02:52,550 --> 01:02:49,410
of what are I guess you'd have to call

1352
01:02:55,700 --> 01:02:52,560
lies about this thing these these pair

1353
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:55,710
of slides that ultimately as I've

1354
01:03:00,620 --> 01:02:57,570
discussed many times in the past a

1355
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:00,630
variety of in a variety of venues even

1356
01:03:06,140 --> 01:03:03,119
if even if these slides these few slides

1357
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:06,150
had legitimately shown a non-human

1358
01:03:09,710 --> 01:03:08,250
entity let's assume for a moment that

1359
01:03:12,290 --> 01:03:09,720
that would have been the case that

1360
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:12,300
there'd be some way to prove that could

1361
01:03:17,870 --> 01:03:15,330
be no way to tie those entities to

1362
01:03:21,290 --> 01:03:17,880
anything at Roswell that was purely

1363
01:03:24,830 --> 01:03:21,300
conjecture and fabrication meanwhile if

1364
01:03:26,599 --> 01:03:24,840
we dig down deeper we discover that the

1365
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:26,609
people who were holding these slides and

1366
01:03:31,849 --> 01:03:28,650
this the problem of this goes back to

1367
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:31,859
provenance the person who came forward

1368
01:03:37,310 --> 01:03:33,810
with these things this character Adam do

1369
01:03:38,750 --> 01:03:37,320
who had clear financial motives for

1370
01:03:40,670 --> 01:03:38,760
doing this the guy was working in a

1371
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:40,680
documentary about these things called

1372
01:03:45,140 --> 01:03:42,210
Kodachrome

1373
01:03:47,620 --> 01:03:45,150
I think that's named the documentary he

1374
01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:47,630
basically approaches these quote-unquote

1375
01:03:52,580 --> 01:03:49,920
researchers and that's my first problem

1376
01:03:56,359 --> 01:03:52,590
the fact that the people who were sort

1377
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:56,369
of primary promoters of this hoax this

1378
01:04:02,599 --> 01:04:00,240
this fraudulent situation these guys

1379
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:02,609
Kerry and Schmidt both of whom I've had

1380
01:04:08,060 --> 01:04:05,010
personal experiences with on the parrot

1381
01:04:10,670 --> 01:04:08,070
cast and my former podcast about these

1382
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:10,680
topics and one on one I knew that both

1383
01:04:16,700 --> 01:04:12,450
of these guys were basically

1384
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:16,710
about as honest as george w bush it what

1385
01:04:22,490 --> 01:04:19,050
they were these guys already had very

1386
01:04:25,630 --> 01:04:22,500
very colored paths as far as their

1387
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:25,640
veracity as quote-unquote researchers

1388
01:04:30,260 --> 01:04:28,530
when you then bring up the name hi me

1389
01:04:33,860 --> 01:04:30,270
mouse on someone i've had extensive

1390
01:04:38,270 --> 01:04:33,870
experience with a guy who is well known

1391
01:04:43,250 --> 01:04:38,280
for promoting and specifically making

1392
01:04:45,950 --> 01:04:43,260
all sorts of money on pushing fraudulent

1393
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:45,960
cases and fraudulent evidence except

1394
01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:48,690
that he knows his nonsense he was the

1395
01:04:53,420 --> 01:04:50,400
one who then got involved in putting

1396
01:04:55,970 --> 01:04:53,430
together this event in mexico city by

1397
01:04:58,310 --> 01:04:55,980
the way and again not just i I hate to

1398
01:05:01,130 --> 01:04:58,320
sort of harp on these humanistic points

1399
01:05:04,940 --> 01:05:01,140
but I think it's really important to to

1400
01:05:07,220 --> 01:05:04,950
get our brains around the fact that for

1401
01:05:10,130 --> 01:05:07,230
many people the primary interface to

1402
01:05:13,090 --> 01:05:10,140
these topics are these people these

1403
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:13,100
people who promote themselves as

1404
01:05:19,550 --> 01:05:17,370
researchers as scientists as students of

1405
01:05:21,950 --> 01:05:19,560
this these topics who really as it turns

1406
01:05:25,580 --> 01:05:21,960
out are nothing more than Barker's that

1407
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:25,590
promoters their salesmen the the way

1408
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:27,930
they behave is not like researchers it's

1409
01:05:33,950 --> 01:05:29,850
like people who are doing commerce who

1410
01:05:37,510 --> 01:05:33,960
are doing business on this event in

1411
01:05:41,030 --> 01:05:37,520
Mexico City which apparently based on

1412
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:41,040
relatively credible sources somewhere

1413
01:05:46,070 --> 01:05:43,110
around seven thousand people showed up

1414
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:46,080
to this thing and paid real money to get

1415
01:05:50,750 --> 01:05:47,970
into this event an event that was being

1416
01:05:54,140 --> 01:05:50,760
promoted by honey mass on on his own

1417
01:05:55,550 --> 01:05:54,150
media network down there as the thing

1418
01:05:57,350 --> 01:05:55,560
that was going to change the face of

1419
01:06:00,370 --> 01:05:57,360
humanity is going to change the course

1420
01:06:04,010 --> 01:06:00,380
of history meanwhile somewhere around

1421
01:06:07,940 --> 01:06:04,020
7,000 people paid from sixty five

1422
01:06:10,670 --> 01:06:07,950
dollars to a few hundred dollars to sit

1423
01:06:12,410 --> 01:06:10,680
in the audience this was beyond the fact

1424
01:06:14,990 --> 01:06:12,420
that they were charging $20 for

1425
01:06:17,750 --> 01:06:15,000
streaming of this thing it's five hour

1426
01:06:20,060 --> 01:06:17,760
presentation where they left the reveal

1427
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:20,070
these slides to the very end you know I

1428
01:06:25,420 --> 01:06:22,890
did a little bit of basic math and on

1429
01:06:28,359 --> 01:06:25,430
the low end let's say that of the

1430
01:06:30,309 --> 01:06:28,369
7,000 people he comped or gave free

1431
01:06:32,530 --> 01:06:30,319
access to let's say a thousand of them

1432
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:32,540
let's say he had a thousand friends and

1433
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:34,640
people he wanted to be there let's say

1434
01:06:39,790 --> 01:06:37,520
five thousand people five thousand

1435
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:39,800
people actually paid and let's for a

1436
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:42,290
moment average that out and let's say

1437
01:06:48,250 --> 01:06:44,930
five thousand people paid what is

1438
01:06:50,020 --> 01:06:48,260
probably a low-end average let's call it

1439
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:50,030
seventy five dollars because again some

1440
01:06:54,099 --> 01:06:51,290
of these tickets were a few hundred

1441
01:06:56,260 --> 01:06:54,109
bucks but 5,000 people at seventy five

1442
01:06:59,710 --> 01:06:56,270
dollars is three hundred and seventy

1443
01:07:01,359 --> 01:06:59,720
five thousand dollars that's it that's

1444
01:07:06,370 --> 01:07:01,369
just the people who walked in the hall

1445
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:06,380
that's not counting the livestream stuff

1446
01:07:10,599 --> 01:07:08,690
and we're not talking about an event

1447
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:10,609
that took hundreds of thousands of

1448
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:13,730
dollars to put together folks so you had

1449
01:07:19,540 --> 01:07:16,490
these people who basically had a clear

1450
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:19,550
commercial motive made a serious amount

1451
01:07:24,609 --> 01:07:22,250
of money on this well when it's all said

1452
01:07:26,260 --> 01:07:24,619
and done I'm sure jaime maussan pocketed

1453
01:07:27,970 --> 01:07:26,270
at the least a couple of hundred

1454
01:07:31,210 --> 01:07:27,980
thousand dollars for what was

1455
01:07:33,190 --> 01:07:31,220
effectively a day of presentations you

1456
01:07:35,770 --> 01:07:33,200
know it we constantly hear that nobody

1457
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:35,780
makes money in this field but if you do

1458
01:07:39,910 --> 01:07:37,490
any kind of due diligence on Jaime

1459
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:39,920
mouths son you find that he's got this

1460
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:42,650
production company in Mexico City or

1461
01:07:49,329 --> 01:07:45,770
he's got multiple employees the guy

1462
01:07:52,690 --> 01:07:49,339
likes to put forward videos out there of

1463
01:07:54,819 --> 01:07:52,700
his beautiful mansion outside of Mexico

1464
01:07:56,500 --> 01:07:54,829
City sitting on how many acres of

1465
01:08:01,150 --> 01:07:56,510
pristine property property this

1466
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:01,160
beautiful place he's doing very well for

1467
01:08:04,900 --> 01:08:03,290
himself and this is something that

1468
01:08:08,020 --> 01:08:04,910
anybody who does any kind of due

1469
01:08:10,049 --> 01:08:08,030
diligence on him realizes much less

1470
01:08:13,059 --> 01:08:10,059
people who put themselves forward as

1471
01:08:16,780 --> 01:08:13,069
researchers or and this is my particular

1472
01:08:19,930 --> 01:08:16,790
pet peeve the quote unquote historian

1473
01:08:23,620 --> 01:08:19,940
associated with this a guy who has now

1474
01:08:25,900 --> 01:08:23,630
been spending a week backpedaling trying

1475
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:25,910
to claim that this was all and his

1476
01:08:30,519 --> 01:08:27,440
participation was in the name of

1477
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:30,529
academic research and also brazenly

1478
01:08:35,709 --> 01:08:32,449
stated stating that he would not in any

1479
01:08:38,349 --> 01:08:35,719
way apologize for his participation what

1480
01:08:42,519 --> 01:08:38,359
it really does is it makes it

1481
01:08:44,410 --> 01:08:42,529
certainly to the average person that no

1482
01:08:47,289 --> 01:08:44,420
one can be trusted in the realm of

1483
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:47,299
ufology there are now many reasons to

1484
01:08:52,410 --> 01:08:49,850
have severe strong distrust of all of

1485
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:52,420
these players and when I find especially

1486
01:08:58,510 --> 01:08:56,330
disturbing is how the field in many ways

1487
01:09:01,059 --> 01:08:58,520
tries to approach this topic with

1488
01:09:04,450 --> 01:09:01,069
enlightened thinking and tries to

1489
01:09:06,820 --> 01:09:04,460
basically accept these people as flawed

1490
01:09:10,780 --> 01:09:06,830
human beings that didn't know what they

1491
01:09:12,849 --> 01:09:10,790
were doing they made honest mistakes I'm

1492
01:09:14,649 --> 01:09:12,859
sorry it must be the fact that I'm a New

1493
01:09:18,099 --> 01:09:14,659
Yorker I see right through this stuff

1494
01:09:19,990 --> 01:09:18,109
and these are people who all all of the

1495
01:09:22,660 --> 01:09:20,000
people involved in this have

1496
01:09:25,019 --> 01:09:22,670
questionable backgrounds all of them all

1497
01:09:28,180 --> 01:09:25,029
of them have questionable histories on

1498
01:09:30,459 --> 01:09:28,190
this idea that they fed on these

1499
01:09:33,340 --> 01:09:30,469
high-resolution slides for years and

1500
01:09:35,229 --> 01:09:33,350
nobody actually could tell what was on

1501
01:09:39,070 --> 01:09:35,239
the placard that once they actually

1502
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:39,080
released an actual image to analyze to

1503
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:42,799
the world it took a couple of days for a

1504
01:09:49,660 --> 01:09:45,440
group of researchers to handily debunk

1505
01:09:51,129 --> 01:09:49,670
this thing as what it many of us were

1506
01:09:54,039 --> 01:09:51,139
saying all along it was clearly

1507
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:54,049
obviously even to an untrained eye it

1508
01:09:58,060 --> 01:09:55,760
was a mummy

1509
01:10:01,479 --> 01:09:58,070
it wasn't an extraterrestrial and I had

1510
01:10:03,550 --> 01:10:01,489
heard the quote-unquote historian on a

1511
01:10:05,950 --> 01:10:03,560
popular extremely popular probably the

1512
01:10:09,189 --> 01:10:05,960
most popular radio show on this topic a

1513
01:10:11,140 --> 01:10:09,199
day or two after the event still talking

1514
01:10:14,890 --> 01:10:11,150
about how he found the image is so

1515
01:10:17,590 --> 01:10:14,900
compelling he's not a historian ok the

1516
01:10:19,629 --> 01:10:17,600
guy is a writer the people who claim to

1517
01:10:21,729 --> 01:10:19,639
be researchers who were involved in the

1518
01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:21,739
situation in Mexico City they're not

1519
01:10:27,310 --> 01:10:24,320
researchers they're entertainers and

1520
01:10:30,370 --> 01:10:27,320
that's the problem with this field ok

1521
01:10:33,820 --> 01:10:30,380
people make this field into a full-time

1522
01:10:37,270 --> 01:10:33,830
living so they have a motivation to

1523
01:10:40,060 --> 01:10:37,280
basically keep people involved and that

1524
01:10:42,939 --> 01:10:40,070
means telling them any narrative they

1525
01:10:45,129 --> 01:10:42,949
think their audience wants to hear this

1526
01:10:48,830 --> 01:10:45,139
is not some kind of a new phenomenon

1527
01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:48,840
this is not some weird kind of a

1528
01:10:54,530 --> 01:10:51,510
of an exception that happened this one

1529
01:10:57,830 --> 01:10:54,540
time we see this situation the field of

1530
01:11:00,260 --> 01:10:57,840
ufology again and again and again and

1531
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:00,270
people seem to have no collective memory

1532
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:03,090
they or they're simply willing to

1533
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:05,610
forgive these people any trespasses

1534
01:11:11,630 --> 01:11:08,640
because they want to believe like that

1535
01:11:12,260 --> 01:11:11,640
infamous poster from the old TV show The

1536
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:12,270
X Files

1537
01:11:18,290 --> 01:11:15,210
I want to believe showing an image of a

1538
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:18,300
billy meier model that's basically where

1539
01:11:22,190 --> 01:11:19,890
we're at and to me it's kind of

1540
01:11:26,990 --> 01:11:22,200
frustrating and I get very upset about

1541
01:11:29,330 --> 01:11:27,000
this because it ensures that anybody who

1542
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:29,340
now for the next year wants to try to

1543
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:31,910
discuss these things in a serious tone

1544
01:11:39,260 --> 01:11:36,960
will have to now answer to this Fiasco

1545
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:39,270
and again the people who were promoting

1546
01:11:43,700 --> 01:11:41,370
this Fiasco the people who put it

1547
01:11:46,220 --> 01:11:43,710
forward the people who made it happen

1548
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:46,230
they all made out financially numbers

1549
01:11:49,190 --> 01:11:47,130
don't lie

1550
01:11:52,250 --> 01:11:49,200
they made real money and we'll never

1551
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:52,260
know how that money was split up follow

1552
01:11:57,410 --> 01:11:53,280
the money

1553
01:12:00,530 --> 01:11:57,420
well every single time this is something

1554
01:12:03,260 --> 01:12:00,540
that it becomes so clear when you study

1555
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:03,270
any aspect of politics or sociology or

1556
01:12:10,010 --> 01:12:05,730
history follow the money the money tells

1557
01:12:11,480 --> 01:12:10,020
you what's going on um it's extremely

1558
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:11,490
frustrating to me and yet again

1559
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:13,530
something I think I said when I was on

1560
01:12:18,410 --> 01:12:17,040
your show before ladies um when people

1561
01:12:19,610 --> 01:12:18,420
don't have their own personal

1562
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:19,620
experiences and they're involved with

1563
01:12:23,810 --> 01:12:21,600
the stuff one always has to question

1564
01:12:25,340 --> 01:12:23,820
their motivation I don't think saying

1565
01:12:26,900 --> 01:12:25,350
people get involved with these things

1566
01:12:30,620 --> 01:12:26,910
with these topics without having

1567
01:12:33,380 --> 01:12:30,630
personal experiences maybe they're sane

1568
01:12:35,180 --> 01:12:33,390
and just greedy when in this case I

1569
01:12:37,310 --> 01:12:35,190
think that the motivations of the

1570
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:37,320
primary players and again the historian

1571
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:39,120
in this I tried to distance himself from

1572
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:42,090
it and try to make believe that oh it's

1573
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:45,330
all fine I'm a researcher and I was

1574
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:49,170
innocent in all of this no no this if if

1575
01:12:54,230 --> 01:12:51,330
nothing else anybody who studies this

1576
01:12:56,510 --> 01:12:54,240
field understands the notion of guilt by

1577
01:12:57,710 --> 01:12:56,520
association and the person who I'm

1578
01:12:58,940 --> 01:12:57,720
referring to you've noticed I've not

1579
01:13:00,320 --> 01:12:58,950
mentioned his name

1580
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:00,330
anybody who's really interested in these

1581
01:13:04,460 --> 01:13:02,250
topics can easily find out who all of

1582
01:13:07,670 --> 01:13:04,470
these players are none of these people

1583
01:13:14,290 --> 01:13:07,680
should ever be trusted again not that I

1584
01:13:19,340 --> 01:13:16,490
well you know it's a good point

1585
01:13:23,990 --> 01:13:19,350
and honestly it we just had Andrew

1586
01:13:26,930 --> 01:13:24,000
danciger on he was an airline captain in

1587
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:26,940
the 737 he saw this object he's

1588
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:29,130
definitely not making any money on it

1589
01:13:33,140 --> 01:13:31,050
has probably been somewhat detrimental

1590
01:13:34,910 --> 01:13:33,150
to his career and it just reports what

1591
01:13:35,810 --> 01:13:34,920
he saw that's it he didn't come to any

1592
01:13:37,850 --> 01:13:35,820
conclusions

1593
01:13:40,670 --> 01:13:37,860
and that's what you like just this

1594
01:13:42,620 --> 01:13:40,680
collection of data that hopefully one

1595
01:13:45,170 --> 01:13:42,630
day you'll get enough where the truth

1596
01:13:47,870 --> 01:13:45,180
emerges from all this stuff but those

1597
01:13:49,850 --> 01:13:47,880
slides are I mean I took a look at him

1598
01:13:57,110 --> 01:13:49,860
and I went now a four year old boy

1599
01:13:58,670 --> 01:13:57,120
that's what's even say that you're quite

1600
01:14:03,770 --> 01:13:58,680
right let's say for some bizarre reason

1601
01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:03,780
it was an alien being well so okay so

1602
01:14:07,220 --> 01:14:05,490
what I mean again it's something that's

1603
01:14:10,700 --> 01:14:07,230
reported and it doesn't really mean

1604
01:14:13,610 --> 01:14:10,710
anything in and of itself but it was

1605
01:14:15,290 --> 01:14:13,620
quite human looking as we saw and I mean

1606
01:14:17,660 --> 01:14:15,300
maybe a little miss form but certainly

1607
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:17,670
in their general realm of the human I

1608
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:20,850
want to thank you very much David for or

1609
01:14:28,250 --> 01:14:23,610
you are fun giving us this opinion piece

1610
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:28,260
in the in the we invite anybody to make

1611
01:14:36,140 --> 01:14:30,570
a rebuttal we simply invite them to make

1612
01:14:42,370 --> 01:14:36,150
a rebuttal but here we are shattered

1613
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:42,380
reality a free and independent podcast

1614
01:14:50,480 --> 01:14:46,530
unencumbered by Big Brother mm-hmm so

1615
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:50,490
Feynman yes David thank you again so

1616
01:14:52,700 --> 01:14:51,930
much it's always a great thanks so much

1617
01:14:56,630 --> 01:14:52,710
really

1618
01:14:58,880 --> 01:14:56,640
sure sure ladies okay bye-bye well I

1619
01:15:02,240 --> 01:14:58,890
guess that sort of wraps it up for today

1620
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:02,250
and yeah next we citing guests yeah you

1621
01:15:07,700 --> 01:15:04,560
really and speaking of following the

1622
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:07,710
money next week we are going to have the

1623
01:15:12,060 --> 01:15:10,650
expert on that miss Ellen Brown who is

1624
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:12,070
quite the economist

1625
01:15:19,170 --> 01:15:15,130
and has published a book web of debt and

1626
01:15:22,290 --> 01:15:19,180
in which she explains how large banking

1627
01:15:24,420 --> 01:15:22,300
cartels can control the world since

1628
01:15:27,180 --> 01:15:24,430
money does indeed make the world go

1629
01:15:30,780 --> 01:15:27,190
round and she will tell us how that

1630
01:15:33,060 --> 01:15:30,790
happens and how it is possible to get

1631
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:33,070
off the world if you really want to but

1632
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:34,690
the Ellen Brown will be with us next

1633
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:38,290
week the author of web of debt among all

1634
01:15:43,890 --> 01:15:41,650
other books as well okay so long this is

1635
01:16:02,370 --> 01:15:43,900
for Russia and this is Kate Valentine

1636
01:16:10,660 --> 01:16:05,860
welcome to shattered reality with their

1637
01:16:13,390 --> 01:16:10,670
hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

1638
01:16:17,470 --> 01:16:13,400
have your paradigms shifted in the